View Full Version : Removing Green Hue on E44W46LCD
armentage
10-06-2004, 01:11 PM
So the green hue on my E44W46LCD is killing me. I'm not talking about interference lines or whatever, I'm talking about the general tendency towards green the screen has out of the box.
Its mostly visible in darker scenes, where in shadows especially. Its not a Tint or Color issue, the whole thing is just dying to be green.
So last night I had some fun with the Service Menu. (Hold MENU on the Remove & Console for 5 seconds)
Under the "######Main" area, I found "R-Gain" "G-Gain" "B-Gain" as well as RGB Offsets. These 6 settings seemed to have a HUGE affect on the picture's overall hue. I wasn't able to make the picture PERFECT, but I did manage to make it better.
I noticed the out-of-the-box settings were set to favor the Green. I can only imagine that the actual LCD chip has a week green so Zenith/LG tried to tweak the settings to compsenate, but did too good of a job.
Does anyone else have anything to add? How about specific settings for the Gain/Offset that you've decided on?
I fiddled with those a bit too.
I thought I was on the right track in the gamma menu but ended up making the final picture worse so I had to go back to original.
You are exactly right about this thing having too much green. If we could tweak that out it would be great.
Here's a thread about tweaking through the service menu:
http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?p=120442#post120442
incidentally under that xxxxxmain menu aren't you only affecting one input with the adjustments? Ideally we'd find one that works across all the input modes.
armentage
10-08-2004, 02:53 PM
incidentally under that xxxxxmain menu aren't you only affecting one input with the adjustments? Ideally we'd find one that works across all the input modes.
That's a good point, and probably means I'm looking at the wrong menu. I suspect the MAIN inputs refer to Component 1/2.
Interestingly... I haven't felt that the RGB-PC input was too green. Maybe I should investigate in that direction.
Haha, watched something that looked perfect on the set, despite the green tint issue. It was 'The Ring'.
What did you end up with for settings on:
R-gain
G-gain
B-gain
R-offset
G-offset
B-offset
?
armentage
10-12-2004, 12:26 PM
What did you end up with for settings on:
R-gain
G-gain
B-gain
R-offset
G-offset
B-offset
?
I left them at the defaults for now :( Everything I've tried just makes things worst. I'm going to borrow my friend's AVIA DVD and see if that will help.
I've posted some setting shortcuts on this thread:
http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?p=120442#post120442
gjohnsen2002
10-21-2004, 10:08 PM
What did you end up with for settings on:
R-gain
G-gain
B-gain
R-offset
G-offset
B-offset
?
Neil,
Saw your recommendation on the GAMMA setting on the Canadian site. Seemed to improve the picture. Are you still using these settings on your TV
Made some slight tweaks to it:
GAMMA (probably not necessary if you calibrate your set with DVE/AVIA type tool)
=====
R 360 G 330 B 240
AD9883A
=======
R-gain 124 G-gain 131 B-gain 129
Still not perfect by any means but much better than out of the box... I'm convinced a better picture is possible with expert tune-up. But for someone that just wants a two setting fix it will do.
armentage
10-25-2004, 11:41 AM
I've noticed that the numbers my set shipped with are *way* off from Neil's. I've probably got a different revision of the set,or perhaps they are individually calibrated at the factory?
As has been mentioned many times on this forum, each TV is unique, with it's own set of settings.
I wouldn't call what the factory does to the TV "calibrated", but I know what you meant.
Ratman
10-25-2004, 12:43 PM
...or perhaps they are individually calibrated at the factory?
Bingo!
All sets will have different settings (same make/model). Each set is unique.
Woah - this just in - you can probably disregard the 'gamma' settings. An oversight on my part but the gamma numbers are dependent on your other settings so they will be different for everyone and they will even change for you when you do your contrast/brightness/color settings.
You are best to concentrate on tweaking just the R/G/B gains (and offsets, for the experts)
The best strategy is:
- do one one color at a time (seems like R-gain is the main one though)
- write down your numbers in case of mistake!
- turning UP the gain value for a color actually makes that color LESS prominent (it's kind of the opposite of what I expected)
- so in other words, to offset the strong green, you want a bit more red. To get MORE red, turn DOWN the R-gain value.
Get a source for which you know very precisely what the true colors should look like (cable company guide menu perhaps, or maybe your favorite sports teams) Then work the gain values against your true color references. Or better yet if you have a well calibrated screen showing the same images nearby you can do a side-by-side comparison.
I agree that dirty blonde hair will show the green if I look for it. But these tweaks seemed to tame the issue quite a bit.
By the end of my time with the set I had a spectacular picture going at least for full color sources. The World Series baseball games were jaw dropping.
armentage
10-26-2004, 10:45 AM
Okay, so each TV is unique... If I do a "Reset to Factory Defaults", will I get the settings that *MY* TV originally shipped with, or will I get the standard setting that ALL the TVs were made with, before they were "adjusted" at the factory?
Ratman
10-26-2004, 11:02 AM
I would assume that it would default to the 'standard factory setting' (pre-adjusted).
I have read other posts where some have attempted this with disasterous results (YMMV).
Unless you get a 'definite' answer from someone, I'd avoid performing that function.
Ok this a confusing matter and I'm a bit out of my depth.
I think it's easier to discuss this if we leave the gamma out of the topic. I think the gamma numbers change when you change the other parameters. But I think there are multiple places in the service menu where gamma is mentioned. Maybe one set is for the AV decoder, one is for the LCD engine (?) Keep ing mind I'm not an expert at all and just speculating wildly.
But I believe the R-gain and R-offset values are parallels to the gain/cut settings that experts use to calibrate sets.
I suspect these *are* set at the factory and I don't think they go to the trouble of balancing them individually. I'm basing this just on previous LG's I've looked at.
What's interesting is they didn't just use the center point(128 out of 256)
From my experience you can do a lot with this set by:
1 - minimizing the vertical line with the VMID setting
2 - setting the R, G, and B gains appropriately
3 - remembering that with this type of set a contrast of 90+ is not going to be harmful or bad PQ like it is with other sets
4 - keeping in mind dark sources will be a weak point
I found lots of adjustable parameters on this set including ways to adjust for solarization. I think it will be a joy for tweakers, especially if we can get a service manual.
Ratman
10-26-2004, 03:23 PM
What's interesting is they didn't just use the center point(128 out of 256) .
And there's your clue!
If all sets were optimized from the factory, one would expect all settings would be 'centered'. That is not the case...
And there's your clue!
If all sets were optimized from the factory, one would expect all settings would be 'centered'. That is not the case...
Well maybe you're right but I really can't see them calibrating each LCD engine for each set. After all, if they did, how come so many of them have terrible color balance right out of the box?
I think the gain/cut values are simply their best guess as to what will be about right. I suspect if you opened 5 boxes you'd find all fix have the same initial gain/cuts.
Ratman
10-27-2004, 07:30 AM
Next time you're in Best Buy, Cicuit City.... check it out on their display model.
Compare the settings that you wrote down before you started tweaking your set and compare that to what's in the store.
If they are the same... then maybe I'm wrong.
armentage
10-27-2004, 11:02 AM
Well maybe you're right but I really can't see them calibrating each LCD engine for each set. After all, if they did, how come so many of them have terrible color balance right out of the box?
I think the gain/cut values are simply their best guess as to what will be about right. I suspect if you opened 5 boxes you'd find all fix have the same initial gain/cuts.
I suspect they have some sort of automated system for doing the calibration. It probably feeds some image onto the screen, then uses an optical sensor to see how it "looks", and makes adjustments through that 9-pin serial port on the back.
Either that or Neil & I have different revs with different default settings. Easy to believe given he's in Canada and I'm in the US.
armentage - you said you left your RGB cut/gains at the default. What are the values you've got for each?
I suspect they have some sort of automated system for doing the calibration. It probably feeds some image onto the screen, then uses an optical sensor to see how it "looks", and makes adjustments through that 9-pin serial port on the back.
Either that or Neil & I have different revs with different default settings. Easy to believe given he's in Canada and I'm in the US.
I had the opportunity to check out 3 of the equivalent LG models today in showrooms. One I had already checked before and it had the same defaults as my set. The second was quite a few points off:
R: 136 G: 144 B: 134
and the third was different again than mine, although the numbers were only a point or two off.
So perhaps these are individually calibrated set by set? My instincts tell me no way, that there is little variance from one LCD engine to the next, why bother to calibrate each? Also I question how if they are doing such a careful job of individually calibrating, how could they achieve such a poor end result!?
My best guess is the RGB gain values we see are affected by other settings in the set, maybe the color temp perhaps.
Isn't that what was said around post 12/13? They don't care about the "end result" as long as it looks "bright and shiny" in the showroom.
It'd be interesting to get the "inside scoop" of what's actually done "at the factory" to these sets - whether there's any automation involved, etc.
For others reading this thread, see the FAQ "What you need to do to your new HDTV".
armentage
10-28-2004, 04:35 PM
I had the opportunity to check out 3 of the equivalent LG models today in showrooms. One I had already checked before and it had the same defaults as my set. The second was quite a few points off:
R: 136 G: 144 B: 134
and the third was different again than mine, although the numbers were only a point or two off.
My defaults are in that vicinity, 136,144,134!! Ahh the mystery deepens.
armentage
11-15-2004, 02:50 AM
So I returned my Zenith 44" LCD and bought a Panasonic 50DL54 to replace it. $2499 vs $2180, so it wasnt much more expensive. HOwever, the Panny utterly destroys the Zenith in every way. Bigger screen, MUCH clearer image. No analog interferance all over my SDTV cable channels. Rock solid smooth image without any weird hue or strange cycling colors. The Zenith (LG) turned out to be a piece of junk in the end.
Sad, it was such a cute little TV.
